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	<title>Comments on: Richard Dawkins - A fundemental rationaliser.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.markmitchell.co.uk/2007/10/15/richard-dawkins-a-fundemental-rationaliser/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.markmitchell.co.uk/2007/10/15/richard-dawkins-a-fundemental-rationaliser/</link>
	<description>Whispers from the Void</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: bill beaty</title>
		<link>http://www.markmitchell.co.uk/2007/10/15/richard-dawkins-a-fundemental-rationaliser/#comment-294</link>
		<dc:creator>bill beaty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 02:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markmitchell.co.uk/2007/10/15/richard-dawkins-a-fundemental-rationaliser/#comment-294</guid>
		<description>Here's a word for you: megalothymia, the need to be seen as being superior to other people.

I'm a huge science nerd, and I'm well aware of our common affliction: we're usually bullied in school, unpopular with girls, and need to puff ourselves up to fight a self-image of inferiority.  Infected with megalothymia! If only a trace.  I'm certainly like this myself, and I think I recognize quite a bit of it in RD's attitude.

For high-accomplishment straight-A student types it takes much practice to avoid the dishonest twistedness of grade-competition, to recognize and defeat our own arrogance, and to eventually become a humble scientist.  Einstein pulled it off, for the most part.  Einstein gave the impression of being constantly aware of his own flaws, and constantly strove to be "only a student" and to avoid self-praise.   RD to me seems somewhat the opposite, seems convinced of his own superiority and expertise.  *NOT* that this has much effect on his argument of course... but it leaves a huge weak spot in his persuasive ability.  With even a trace of hostile superior attitude, his audience of religious Believers will perceive him as hopelessly biased and untrustworthy, and will erect barriers to avoid listening to his reasoning.  And so he'll end up preaching only to the converted, while the converted sadly shake their heads as the Believers simply ignore all his obvious points.

RD can't sway Believers as long as he considers them inferior; behaving as their opponent in some sort of debate.  A good teacher first lives in his students' world, then leads them to a better one.  A good teacher is humble, and is well aware that he was once ignorant himself.  I suspect RD considers this "students' world" of religious belief to be disgusting, would never lower himself to seeing through students eyes, and instead treats it as an enemy to be attacked.

So there's an analogy.  To effectively reach students, should a teacher try to make them ashamed of their own ignorance, and attempt to humiliate them in public by analyzing all their errors?   Such an stance is more akin to that of an insecure bully with a sneering attitude towards younger students.  This doesn't have to be overt, since it doesn't take much of this to convince an audience to plug their ears and turn away.

 "You can get into a habit of thought in which you enjoy making fun of 
  all those other people who don't see things as clearly as you do.  We
  have to guard carefully against it."  - Carl Sagan, 1987 
  CSICOP meeting

  "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which 
   cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--  that 
   principle is contempt prior to investigation."  - Herbert Spencer, 
   British philosopher

...The chief deficiency I see in the skeptical movement is its polarization: Us vs. Them -- the sense that we have a monopoly on the truth; that those other people who believe in all these stupid doctrines are morons; that if you're sensible, you'll listen to us; and if not, to hell with you. This is nonconstructive. It does not get our message across. It condemns us to permanent minority status. - Carl Sagan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a word for you: megalothymia, the need to be seen as being superior to other people.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a huge science nerd, and I&#8217;m well aware of our common affliction: we&#8217;re usually bullied in school, unpopular with girls, and need to puff ourselves up to fight a self-image of inferiority.  Infected with megalothymia! If only a trace.  I&#8217;m certainly like this myself, and I think I recognize quite a bit of it in RD&#8217;s attitude.</p>
<p>For high-accomplishment straight-A student types it takes much practice to avoid the dishonest twistedness of grade-competition, to recognize and defeat our own arrogance, and to eventually become a humble scientist.  Einstein pulled it off, for the most part.  Einstein gave the impression of being constantly aware of his own flaws, and constantly strove to be &#8220;only a student&#8221; and to avoid self-praise.   RD to me seems somewhat the opposite, seems convinced of his own superiority and expertise.  *NOT* that this has much effect on his argument of course&#8230; but it leaves a huge weak spot in his persuasive ability.  With even a trace of hostile superior attitude, his audience of religious Believers will perceive him as hopelessly biased and untrustworthy, and will erect barriers to avoid listening to his reasoning.  And so he&#8217;ll end up preaching only to the converted, while the converted sadly shake their heads as the Believers simply ignore all his obvious points.</p>
<p>RD can&#8217;t sway Believers as long as he considers them inferior; behaving as their opponent in some sort of debate.  A good teacher first lives in his students&#8217; world, then leads them to a better one.  A good teacher is humble, and is well aware that he was once ignorant himself.  I suspect RD considers this &#8220;students&#8217; world&#8221; of religious belief to be disgusting, would never lower himself to seeing through students eyes, and instead treats it as an enemy to be attacked.</p>
<p>So there&#8217;s an analogy.  To effectively reach students, should a teacher try to make them ashamed of their own ignorance, and attempt to humiliate them in public by analyzing all their errors?   Such an stance is more akin to that of an insecure bully with a sneering attitude towards younger students.  This doesn&#8217;t have to be overt, since it doesn&#8217;t take much of this to convince an audience to plug their ears and turn away.</p>
<p> &#8220;You can get into a habit of thought in which you enjoy making fun of<br />
  all those other people who don&#8217;t see things as clearly as you do.  We<br />
  have to guard carefully against it.&#8221;  - Carl Sagan, 1987<br />
  CSICOP meeting</p>
<p>  &#8220;There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which<br />
   cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance&#8211;  that<br />
   principle is contempt prior to investigation.&#8221;  - Herbert Spencer,<br />
   British philosopher</p>
<p>&#8230;The chief deficiency I see in the skeptical movement is its polarization: Us vs. Them &#8212; the sense that we have a monopoly on the truth; that those other people who believe in all these stupid doctrines are morons; that if you&#8217;re sensible, you&#8217;ll listen to us; and if not, to hell with you. This is nonconstructive. It does not get our message across. It condemns us to permanent minority status. - Carl Sagan</p>
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		<title>By: Szymanowski</title>
		<link>http://www.markmitchell.co.uk/2007/10/15/richard-dawkins-a-fundemental-rationaliser/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Szymanowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markmitchell.co.uk/2007/10/15/richard-dawkins-a-fundemental-rationaliser/#comment-192</guid>
		<description>A discussion will ensue here:

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&#38;t=26818&#38;start=0&#38;st=0&#38;sk=t&#38;sd=a</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A discussion will ensue here:</p>
<p><a href="http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&amp;t=26818&amp;start=0&amp;st=0&amp;sk=t&amp;sd=a" rel="nofollow">http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&amp;t=26818&amp;start=0&amp;st=0&amp;sk=t&amp;sd=a</a></p>
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		<title>By: osmo</title>
		<link>http://www.markmitchell.co.uk/2007/10/15/richard-dawkins-a-fundemental-rationaliser/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>osmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markmitchell.co.uk/2007/10/15/richard-dawkins-a-fundemental-rationaliser/#comment-191</guid>
		<description>Very interesting point. I think he has in some way addressed these issues but agree that he certainly should examine his own direction carefully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting point. I think he has in some way addressed these issues but agree that he certainly should examine his own direction carefully.</p>
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